The International CBX Owners Association

Well Aris I think you're doing the best thing for your build, sending the whole lot to a qualified shop. Falicon is one of the best performance shops in the States for this kind of work and I'm sure your shop is in that league and you won't be sorry for having them sort things out.

Heres a shaved, balanced and polished crank I had Falicon do after the number one journal had to be reconditioned from a spun bearing, its called the street comp service. They also checked and reconditioned a set of MTC conrods and sold me all new matching conrod bolts.

What an amazing saga...... and I'm mentally tired after goiing through all this great work you're doing Aris.

Fingers crossed you find where the media hid while you did your incredible cleaning efforts.

My best.......Mike

Jeff Bennetts wrote:Heres a shaved, balanced and polished crank I had Falicon do after the number one journal had to be reconditioned from a spun bearing, its called the street comp service. They also checked and reconditioned a set of MTC conrods and sold me all new matching conrod bolts.

Jeff, this looks the part.
Can you please elaborate on "shaving".
Also, is there anything to be gained by "balancing" as above, over and above the original Honda balancing?
Unless you imply that the very process of fixing your no 1 journal could unbalance the crank and hence the need for re balance?
Cheers, Aris

Mike Cecchini wrote:Fingers crossed you find where the media hid while you did your incredible cleaning efforts.

Mike you are on the money, 100% my no 1 priority!!!
There is no way I will rebuild this engine unless I KNOW there is no more glass in it and IT IS a matter of getting an intimate knowledge of all the nooks and crannies within, all places where oil goes through and in many cases does not
For example, when tooling was used to open the various oil ways during manufacture, they would 'drill across' (not sure how to better describe), creating little pockets/cavities, ideal for crap to hide.

How do you clean these, make sure they are spotless, not sure yet but working on it ... Now if I could get my cases behind a big X-ray machine ...

Aris

Kool_Biker wrote:

Jeff Bennetts wrote:Heres a shaved, balanced and polished crank I had Falicon do after the number one journal had to be reconditioned from a spun bearing, its called the street comp service. They also checked and reconditioned a set of MTC conrods and sold me all new matching conrod bolts.

Jeff, this looks the part.
Can you please elaborate on "shaving".
Also, is there anything to be gained by "balancing" as above, over and above the original Honda balancing?
Unless you imply that the very process of fixing your no 1 journal could unbalance the crank and hence the need for re balance?
Cheers, Aris

The shaving is knife edging all the leading edges on the crank, this lessons the resistance of the rotating crank, the number one journal was scored so Falicon welded it and reground that journal. Since material was added then removed from the journal and also material was removed in the knife edging process the crank needed balanced again.

The results of this process lightens and reduces the reciprocating resistance of the crank, its popular with a lot of high performance street motors, it doesn't increase your HP but enables the motor to rev faster and higher.

This quote is straight from Falicon's website,

" The Falicon Supercrank is the “ultimate” crankshaft modification for knife-edge performance. The OEM crankshaft is blueprinted to the best combination of oil clearance, moderate lightening and precise tolerance for your specific application. The crank throws are contoured and polished to a mirror finish, improving oil flow and reducing crankcase turbulence. Each crankshaft is custom balanced to the reciprocating weight and intended rpm range, for use with or without the OEM counterbalance (on some models)".

http://www.faliconcranks.com/crank_svc.html

Kool_Biker wrote: There is no way I will rebuild this engine unless I KNOW there is no more glass in it and IT IS a matter of getting an intimate knowledge of all the nooks and crannies within, all places where oil goes through and in many cases does not
For example, when tooling was used to open the various oil ways during manufacture, they would 'drill across' (not sure how to better describe), creating little pockets/cavities, ideal for crap to hide.

How do you clean these, make sure they are spotless, not sure yet but working on it ... Now if I could get my cases behind a big X-ray machine ...

Aris

Let us know where you find a source for the miniture flexible boroscope for the visual inspection of those passageways. Maybe borrow one from a local doctor that does joint surgery. lol.

Barry

Yesterday's candle light burned for my ex-NOS oil pump, the heart of my re (-re) build After disassembling I found visible damage, done to it over its short, 172 Km life (I looked at the dark speedo of my engine-less Z earlier on today - call it 110 miles from now on). But all was not bad. Due to the design of this engine, the glass that managed to clear the sump filter and was subsequently munched by the pump, was already ground by other equally expensive parts of the engine so the pump was sort of spared extensive damage. All measurements, carefully taken, were well better than tolerances which led me to believe the damage was superficial.
So decided to dress the two end plates, the only part worth touching. They were rubbed down by successive wet and dry emeries, beginning with 800, then 1000 and finally finishing with a mirror like 1200. No big deal, and they did improve markedly. In the end everything was cleaned with copious amounts of brake cleaner and readied to be assembled All was put back together using clean engine oil, that that was that. Sorted It is amazing how much dirt brake cleaner will shift from visibly spotless parts - I love the stuff.

BTW I am trying to use my humble Panasonic LX-3 camera as a microscope ... here are some shots, all relating to the pump which you might find interesting:

Boy, glass is not very kind to metal, is it?

Only 110 miles!

I'm really glad that you could tell from listening to it in person that it was more than just an exhaust leak and that you took it apart rather than putting another 100 miles on it . . . . if not for that, it could have been much worse than it is

Don

For me, the moral of this story is that the only glass I'll have near my engine is the one holding the ice-cold beer I'm enjoying!!!

Eric

ericfreeman wrote:For me, the moral of this story is that the only glass I'll have near my engine is the one holding the ice-cold beer I'm enjoying!!!

Eric

Yeah, me too. I blasted a GT-750 "Kettle" motor with walnut shells years ago, did what I thought was a really careful and thorough job of sealing all the possible ports and openings (it was assembled), and then polished it. When I removed the plugs and masking, sure enough, there was blasting debris behind it. So the engine then came apart, was thoroughly inspected, detected, rejected (but not neglected), reassembled, and then it was OK. Sure enough though, we did find more debris in both the crankcase and gearbox.

For me it's soda or vapor, period. It was a tough lesson for me back then, as it is for you now Aris.

N.

I'm curious what the clutch pressure plate is going to look like?

Aris, are you going to use the old oil cooler or replace it?

Jeff Bennetts wrote:I'm curious what the clutch pressure plate is going to look like?

Aris, are you going to use the old oil cooler or replace it?

Wonder myself Jeff . We will know soon enough, after I get more important, long lead items out of the way.

Aris

With the crank, rods and pump out of the way, time to look at the cylinders (and then, pistons and rings).
Below is part of bore no 1, upside down, by far the worst hit of the lot. You can see the hone marks, below the glass scratches, the latter extending from the bottom of the cylinder wall to about 3/4 high.
Please note, the scratches are shallower than the picture suggests; I have enhanced them in the interests of visual clarity

Tomorrow I'll get down to some measurements which I know will be fine, but of course only tell part of the story ...
Then I will have to decide if I will need a rebore (and new pistons and new rings), or whether the cylinders can be salvaged with something less drastic like a good wet & dry and then a new hone. I remind the compression of this cylinder (with the 1mm play!!!) was 140 psi hot.

As always, desperate for opinions & suggestions!
Aris

Aris:
We are all still scratching our heads wondering where the glass beads were hiding. Any clue where the sliver of metal came from? I'm sure your bores will be OK. Since they are not even broken in yet, maybe a light hone on any with small scores will do. As you indicate - they will likely measue just fine.

You obviously have done everything more 'right' than most of would ever think of, but got burned by a very unlucky twist of fate. After your crank comes back, just proceed as before and I'm sure you will be fine. By the way, rifle and shotgun brass bore brushes of the appropriate sizes work well to clean the cross-drilled oil passages and galleys.

Dave

daves79x wrote:Aris:
Any clue where the sliver of metal came from?

Dave

Dave,
The sliver was a product of the machining operation of the oil pump shaft manufacture and was hanging on, just, hidden inside the hollow part of the shaft. I had to break it loose pushing it with a screwdriver, after which it fell off. I guess a byproduct of dodgy quality control on the first place. With my recent catastrophe, I have now grown eyes all over my head - no longer taking anything for granted.
So look what I just found lurking in the lubrication hole of one of my spanking NOS rods, as it was taken it out of its 30 year old package ... Normally I would never look for stuff like this.
Now I check everything (this includes decals ) 5 times over.
Cheers, Aris