The International CBX Owners Association

daves79x wrote:Aris:
Well - it sure seems like an oiling problem to that end of the crank. Has to be a plugged galley somewhere. What media did you use to blast/clean the cases with? Hope you find all's well with the others, then the problem should be easy to isolate. Good news is that CBX cranks are plentiful. Bad news is that shipping to Greece is likely expensive and will almost surely require most new bearings due to non-matching codes. Big thing is to find the root of the problem and I'm sure then you'll rest easier going back together.

If you need a crank - take a vacation to the US this Summer and carry one with you on the plane back home - it's been done before! Love to show you around.

Dave

Aris,

I'm pretty sure I have some NOS crank bearings in my parts cache. Pipe up when you figure out what you need and see what materializes. I hope you can put this aside and enjoy that beautiful GoldWing for a weekend.

N.

All
Thanks a lot for your support!
Off to the Peloponnese in a few short hours. When I return I will make available all the time needed to get to the bottom of this, understand what went so wrong.
Have a great weekend, we will chat again Monday and hope, by then, I will be a little wiser!
All the best
Aris

I am ambivalent on the cause. If it were lac of lubrication wouldn't the babbitt wipe onto the journal because of heat transfer? It looks more like contamination to me, those deep groves in both the journal and the babbitt sure look like something washed through.

Mike

Back after a wonderful 2 day, 600 Km rally in the Peloponnese with a great bunch of same minded friends.
Greece, as I am sure is the case with your great country, is so beautiful if you take the trouble to get out of Athens.
Fantastic weather, empty roads, beautiful countryside, great food & hospitality by the village people, the lot! Back home the reality is now becoming grimmer.
I have removed the cylinder block and I can confirm there is (light) damage to the cylinder walls and perhaps pistons .

I am nowhere near the end of my investigation but believe the engine was on a self destruct course. Few more kilometers and ... who knows.
What is blatantly apparent, the whole interior is filled with a black powder dissolved in the oil. Also, as shown below, it is ferrous. It is found in copious quantities and for now have no idea where it came from ... At some point I thought it was the residue from the moly disulphide I used liberally when assembling the engine - but no such luck. It may also be the engine parts ground away but I do not believe so.

http://youtu.be/oUoSusvbb9s

Next I will remove all pistons and rods, lift the crank and try to find more about the contaminant and where it came from.
It is only then that I can BEGIN thinking about a rebuilt

Still it is an intriguing (if expensive) project, and I stand to learn a lot.
Aris

The dismantling of the engine continued last night with bits and pieces laid carefully on the bench.
At the same time some minor parts, fasteners etc. begin to get cleaned in the parts washer ... I still have not found any evidence / proof of what went so wrong with this engine, although I have a few ideas, which I am holding on to until I have all parts on the bench and time to inspect everything.

I am hopeful the crankshaft, to be pulled out tomorrow, will at last provide the elusive evidence of exactly what went wrong.

Best, Aris

The oil feed to the crank journals comes directly from the oil filter. The No 1 connecting rod journal is in line behind the outer left main crank bearing. A plugged orifice to affect only No 1 would have to be after the left side gallery plug, basically.

Here's a drawing of the CBX lubrication system which I am sure you all have. It makes all the galleys, oil ways and plugs easier to understand. 90% of my problem is with the left-most crank journal and no 1 crank pin. The remaining 10% is with the following (second) crank journal.
ALL else seems to be fine both in terms of journals, and big ends.
I am also of the opinion that this does not look like an oil feed issue, rather like a very abrasive contaminant.
Now IF it is as above, one would think it was hiding either inside the LHS crankshaft oil feed (red), dislodged by oil pressure washing directly into no 1 Big end, or in the feeding galley (blue) thus also affecting slightly pin no 2. So far and despite a very detailed observation of everything I take off the engine, I have failed to find something which could explain to me in the least this amount of damage. And then, there is also this black ferrous powder sloshing around ???
Most perplexing.

Have you pulled the oil filter apart? It would be interesting to see what if anything resides in those pleats.

Mike

Now all parts are out and in various benches.
Some, minor, have already gone to the parts washer for an initial clean.
Major ones are as removed, awaiting detailed examination and evaluation prior to being cleaned to retain any evidence there might be of what went wrong in the first place.
And last night I had a BREAKTHROUGH. I finally found evidence of what went wrong.
So I collected a few cc's of oil in a small container, from various residual pools in the opened cases.
After diluting it with petrol and using a small magnet to attract and remove all ferrous material, I ended up with a transparent fluid with some gold and pink residue at the bottom.
The gold shavings were, I guess, brass from the destroyed main bearings.
However, the pink stuff I recognised, unmistakably, as the glass shot I stupidly allowed to be used when my cases were 'aqua blasted' few years back and thought I had successfully removed after spending hours with my cases cleaning with high pressure water, compressed air and repeated immersions in water baths. Obviously I did not do a good enough job And BTW I do not feel overly pedantic here. I HAD TO FIND the real reason behind such a catastrophic failure, before even thinking about rebuilding my engine.
To support all above further, I sent pictures to a reputable firm I know in the UK and they also confirmed the damage was consistent with glass shot contamination.
So I think we can turn page now, and going forward my time will be spent to assess each and every component in the engine for damage.-
Aris

CopperCollar wrote:Have you pulled the oil filter apart? It would be interesting to see what if anything resides in those pleats.

Mike

It's in the pipeline. But as it is the 3rd filter after the rebuild, I am not expecting much. But we will see.
Cheers, Aris

Aris, through your tragedy others will learn.

I recently aquired another CBX in need of some TLC. Should I be tearing the engine down I will definetly be boiling the cases then follow with ultrasonic cleaning .....if I can find a place that can do that.

Aris:
What you found is exactly why I asked you a few posts back what media was used on the cases. This contamination is a known (now even further known!) problem. Apparently some glass beads got stuck in the last oil feed path to #1 main and rod bearing. After a thorough cleaning, you can force oil through all the passages to confirm clean oil flows. Would be well worth rigging up something to do that. I think you are on your way to getting it all sorted.

Dave

Indeed Dave.

Although you cannot begin to imagine how much aware I was of this pitfall, and how many hours I spent with whatever I could think of at the time to get the cases ultra clean, obviously I missed quite few glass beads which subsequently got into my crank. My theory is that some of them were lodged by the aqua blast pressure into the soft aluminium, in some place I did not notice, and were dislodged with oil pressure, flow and heat, to play their dirty role.

Still, a hell of a learning experience

Thanks for your continued support
Aris

Amen, brother!

Dave

Kool_Biker wrote:90% of my problem is with the left-most crank journal and no 1 crank pin. The remaining 10% is with the following (second) crank journal.

Aris,

It seems you've found what destroyed your engine, but as I think Dave mentioned, I'd still like to know *for sure* why the damage was centered around #1

I wouldn't be assembling anything until you see for sure that all of the associated passages arounbd #1 were clear and free flowing

Glass beads *inside* an engine . . . . what a learning experience for us all - So sad that it happened to you, but sure glad that it happened to someone who could and would document as thoroughly as you have . . . . guess that narrowed it down to you though ;)

Don