swing arm rebuild

[donny dotson]

I recently bought a needle bearing kit from Tims. After total diss-assembly for full resto, first thing I put together was the swing arm. The first thing I found is that there is no o-rings or gaskets on the dust seals/end spacer washer, I guess the needle bearings do not require to be kept clean or grease oozing out. Next I pressed in the four new bearings ( they fit ). I checked the fit of the swing arm bolt through the frame ( perfect with no wear or slop) . Next I checked the inner distance spacer tube supplied in the kit installed in the swing arm through the bearings ( nice fit ). After checking the swing arm bolt installed through the inner tube I found major slop (.02) I checked bolt for wear referring to manual and other bolts and found tube was made to big (the I.D.). I called Bill and asked him about this and he measured a kit on the shelve and bolt in the shop and came up with the same measurements. Bill also said he has sold this kit for 10+ years and I was the first to bring this to his attention and also he told me to torque the swing arm bolt and check it for slop, well I did and still has play,not a lot but should operate freely with no play. At this point stock bushings look better than this kit. Bill @ Tims is good person to deal with and I'm not bashing his products but I need to come up with something better.

[EMS]

Donny:
I am a little confused. How were you able to get the inner distance tube inside the swingarm through the bearings?
The swingarm axle is supposed to be supported by the bearings, not the tube.
What is the inner diameter of the tube?
You are aware of the fact, that there is a 14mm swingarm axle (CBX-Z) and a 16mm swingarm axle (all other models)

[daves79x]

Yes, that was my question. I never saw this kit in person, but a true distance collar's ID would not matter - it's just a matter of being a spacer for the two bearings. Or are you saying your 'distance collar' is actually the sleeve that goes completely through both sets of needle bearings and that's what the swingarm rides on? In that case, the fit between that kind of sleeve and the swingarm pivot bolt would matter. If there is noticeable play there that you can see when everything is tightened up, then that would not be good.

I've said that the stock plastic bushings in good shape, or bronze replacements reamed to a tight tolerance, are just as good as anything else.

Dave

[donny dotson]

The I.D. of the inner tube 13.79 mm and the O.D. of the swing arm bolt is 13.43 mm. My measurement on the I.D. could be a little off +or-. The bearings into arm, distance tube into bearings and arm bolt into tube. The two different sizes I was not a where of. What do think ? Should chunk the needle bearings in the trash ? Look for a bigger bolt/pin ? or go for the Bronze bushings ?

[EMS]

To salvage the kit, you could have someone make you two sleeves that fit nicely into the bearings and on the swingarm, just a tad wider than the bearings are. Put one on each side, cut your tube to fit in between and you would be all set.
Are you sure the bolt you have is the swingarm bolt? - just asking.

[donny dotson]

The bolt is correct. The fit between swing arm, dust caps and frame is good, it's the sleeve that the I.D. is .36 mm to big. I do not want to reinvent something or make mods to make something that should have worked i the first place. While sitting here the mail man brought me new stock bushings, they are pieces of Ka Ka. I'm going to send all this stuff back and get the bronze bushing and be done with it. Thanks you guys for your time an experience.

[donny dotson]

If anybody is thinking about stock swing arm rebuild, check to see if your pivot bolt is 14mm or 16mm, it will save time.

[EMS]

If anybody is thinking about stock swing arm rebuild, check to see if your pivot bolt is 14mm or 16mm, it will save time.

Donny, that was not the issue with your kit. It was obviously meant for a 14mm bolt and the 1979 CBX. It would not have fit the 16mm bolt, definitely.
I have a kit like this in my parts stash and I am curious now. Will take some measurements.

[donny dotson]

I agree, you would think the people that made it and sold this 79 CBX kit would know that there were two sizes. So I guess its safe to say this kit should be for a 1980 CBX.

[daves79x]

No, it's not for an '80. The '80s had a completely different pivot set-up, as well as the 16mm pivot bolt.

Dave

[donny dotson]

Ok, I remeasured, I made a slight error, the sleeve has a I.D. of 13.97 mm and the bolt is at 13.84 mm a difference of .13 mm ( .005 in ). maybe I'm too picky and it doesn't seem like much, but when it's together, there is considerable amount of side to side play at the other end of the swing arm. When under a load I guarantee it will move a lot more. I redid my swig arms on my RG & RZV a couple of years ago, and there's still zero play in both, then I checked my other 79 X w/17k, it has unsafe amount play.

[EMS]

It is indeed a little difficult to measure, and I get a different reading at the very end of the tube from a little further down inside. But the ID of the tube I have confirms your measurements. It is 13.98mm on one side and 13.94mm on the other.
I do not have a 14mm swingarm axle easily accessible to measure that.
If you have a problem, it could be the swingarm bolt and not the kit. The kit I have was bought years ago in Germany, when I was contemplating upgrading the swinger on my '79. I later decided to change the complete swingarm.

[donny dotson]

I just finished making and installing bushings out of bearing grade bronze and they fit tighter than a mouse's ear. I looked at bronze bushings on Ebay (a So Cal. CBX suppler) were not correctly made to fit (in my opinion) the sizing was to lose and the stock bushings are a joke If you want something done right, get off your butt and do it yourself. Thanks for everyone's input.

[steve murdoch icoa #5322]

Not everybody has the knowledge or the means to solve a problem like you encountered with your swingarm.
I am glad to hear you got it sorted out.

[hardlyrock]

I too am looking at the swingarm needle bearing kit on Ebay. The seller cannot speak to the issue of no seals even thought he has this mounted on his own personal CBX.
Is it possible that the washers provided in the kit fit inside the stock swingarm seal ? If installed without the stock sealing washer/spacers this would give side play mentioned above.
I have installed a similar kit on a 1976 CB750 and it was a major improvement over the stock bushings. Surely there are members that have used this needle bearing kit successfully?