Chain length for 1100F swingarm conversion to 80 CBX

[NobleHops]

Gang,

I discovered tonight that my original chain is a bit short in the 1100F swingarm, eg the wheelbase appears to be lengthened slightly.

Stock appears to be 102 links with my stock 18/42 gearing, and it appears that I need an additional 4 links to get it to fit in the near center of the adjustment range. No biggie, just thought I'd post a note with the observation for the next guy that does one of these.

EDIT! READ THE WHOLE THREAD! THERE IS AN UNHAPPY ENDING AT 106 LINKS. YOU WANT 104 LINKS WITH STOCK WHEELS AND TIRES.

Also, FYI the CBX chain case I so lovingly restored does not bolt up, I need an 1100F chain case, but it appears that Mother Honda still sells these, so I think I'm all set.

Last thought: Babbitts' service kind-of sucks for online parts, even if their fiche are good. Service Honda on the other hand was great with one little recent order, and cheaper and will be my default for OEM parts moving forward.

N.

[Don]

Yes, the wheelbase is extended slightly and I believe you're right . . . . it's 4 extra links

Dave McMunn will confirm it for sure when he chimes in . . . . he's done the mod on half a dozen '79 and '80 models, including mine

Don

[daves79x]

Nils:
Yes, I think it's 106 pins that you need. I'll count them on the one I have here tonight to be sure. I mentioned that to you when we talked a while back, but we talked about a lot of things regarding this conversion, so I'm not sure here at the computer so I'll check to be sure. If Honda does not have the chain guard, they are not too hard to find, but being chrome, some are pretty ratty. I'll let you know for sure.

Dave

[NobleHops]

Nils:
Yes, I think it's 106 pins that you need. I'll count them on the one I have here tonight to be sure. I mentioned that to you when we talked a while back, but we talked about a lot of things regarding this conversion, so I'm not sure here at the computer so I'll check to be sure. If Honda does not have the chain guard, they are not too hard to find, but being chrome, some are pretty ratty. I'll let you know for sure.

Dave

Thank you (again) Dave!

N.

[daves79x]

Nils:
I counted the chain pins on the '80 I have here. I get 104. It has the 1100F swingarm and stock '80 gearing (18/42). With a new chain this put the adjusters near the middle of the range. Maybe Don can count his to be sure, but I counted twice and thats what I get.

Dave

[NobleHops]

Nils:
I counted the chain pins on the '80 I have here. I get 104. It has the 1100F swingarm and stock '80 gearing (18/42). With a new chain this put the adjusters near the middle of the range. Maybe Don can count his to be sure, but I counted twice and thats what I get.

Dave

Thanks a bunch Dave. I was going to order it to length but now I've got a 120-link chain inbound, and a borrowed chain tool. I'll put the axle in the center of the adjustment and that should make it a no-brainer. I'll confirm what I use.

BTW Service Honda accepted my order for a new chrome OEM chain case for ~$100, so it appears that the stock CR1100F chain case is is indeed still available form Honda. Bonus! I think I will like a little chrome back there.

N.

[Mike Barone #123]

Nils

When I put the 1100f arm on the Dawgie way back.... the stock CBX chain was too short with the 1100f arm and stock CBX gearing.

To me this meant the 1100f arm was longer than the stock CBX early model arm which is not what I wanted for handling reasons....plus I just bought a new chain and was not wanting to buy another one.

To fix all this, I cut 1/2" or so off the back of the 1100f arm on each side and elongated the swingarm axle slots profile forward by this same amount. The result was the Dawgie was back to the stock early model wheelbase and the stock CBX chain fit.

Enlongating just the axle slots without cutting 1/2" off the arm will not allow the axle adjusters to be double nutted.

See reallly bad pix below

Just an idea.


Mike

[Mike Barone #123]

[Don]

I like the added length of the 1100F swingarm - Installing one is such a huge improvement I've gotta believe at least part of that is due to the extra wheelbase . . . . I certainly wouldn't go to the trouble of shortening it until you've ridden it and can make up your own mind - You might evern decide a few more mm's of length would be the way to go

Don

[Mike Barone #123]

I like the added length of the 1100F swingarm - Installing one is such a huge improvement I've gotta believe at least part of that is due to the extra wheelbase
Don

Not so sure on the extra wheelbase part Don...the big improvements for the 1100f front and back I found are:
1. Gets rid of wobbles
2. Lowers bike...one feels in the CBX more vs on it.
3. Front forks, anti-dive, adjustablity and having real brakes are a plus
4. 1100f rear shocks are the best period oem shocks ever...massive improvement when even put a stock CBX
5. 1100 rear brake is a massive improvement....bit touchy...but when applying both front and back is an amazing improvement over stock CBX.

The question here relates to CBXs with full 1100f front and back transplants that kept the stock longer 1100f arm compared to CBXs with the 1100f front and then the 1100f arm trimmed to keep stock CBX arm length......the latter is better on the bikes I have ridden over the years.

In the end, it all depends on how one rides....if one seldom really gives it a go in the twisties it really wont matter at all....and infact in this the improvements the stock 1100f front and back on a CBX are not needed.

I did all this stuff to the Dawgie long ago.....and micromanaging things to the mm was really not a consideration.....we are not dealing with a MotoGP bike here ...so there is some leaway in this matter and most matters related to the CBX.

I just like to offer opinions based actual results I had vs speculatation or articles in magazines that are not specific to CBXs...so people know there are choices and what has worked and also what I tried back then that did not work...and there were plenty of both...count on it.

Bout it........


Mike

[EMS]

The CB1100F wheelbase is 1519mm, the early CBX is 1495mm. That's a difference of 24mm or roughly 1 inch. The CB1100F was never criticized for being a bad handling bike as much as the CBX. While longer wheelbase in general makes turning a little harder, I doubt one would really feel a difference in a 24mm increased wheelbase when half of that can be produced by adjusting for a longer chain.
The rake and trail set-up was very similar between both bikes with the F at 28.5° and 120mm and the CBX at 27.5° and also 120mm.

[Mike Barone #123]

The CB1100F wheelbase is 1519mm, the early CBX is 1495mm. That's a difference of 24mm or roughly 1 inch. The CB1100F was never criticized for being a bad handling bike as much as the CBX. While longer wheelbase in general makes turning a little harder, I doubt one would really feel a difference in a 24mm increased wheelbase when half of that can be produced by adjusting for a longer chain.
The rake and trail set-up was very similar between both bikes with the F at 28.5° and 120mm and the CBX at 27.5° and also 120mm.

You have no basis for any doubts Mike unless ridden CBXs with both wheelbases at speed..... alot of miles. This trumps the high and low theory of it all. Heck....if a 1" increase in the wheelbase for an early model does not matter....why not make it 2" or 3"

Mike...what color is this dot > . < ..... If I say black.........you will say white every time.

[EMS]

See, Mike, the reason one would have "doubts" is because he does not know for sure. I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference in handling between two bikes, one with a 24mm longer wheelbase and nothing else changed. You guys fiddle with smaller wheels, wider tires, lower front ends, different effective shock positions which throw the whole geometry upside down and then you want to remedy a 24mm longer than stock swingarm. Come on
And as you mention it: The early CBX was never really chastized for not turning in well, it was always criticized for being a wobbler at higher speeds. And THAT would be addressed with a longer swingarm/wheelbase.

[Mike Barone #123]

See, Mike, the reason one would have "doubts" is because he does not know for sure. I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference in handling between two bikes, one with a 24mm longer wheelbase and nothing else changed. You guys fiddle with smaller wheels, wider tires, lower front ends, different effective shock positions which throw the whole geometry upside down and then you want to remedy a 24mm longer than stock swingarm. Come on
And as you mention it: The early CBX was never really chastized for not turning in well, it was always criticized for being a wobbler at higher speeds. And THAT would be addressed with a longer swingarm/wheelbase.

In the end, what matters is here is sharing information.

I have worked on econo CBX handling improvements the last 20 years and the results are well documented in the real world on Sport Rides at our rallies and track days ...this backs up I have done and my recommendations and in most cases this should be of value and trump text book generalities.

In this case, a person asked about the chain being too short when fitting an 1100f arm and I gave an answer that worked for me over the years that infact was the only one preserved the stock CBX wheelbase.

We are here to help CBXers....someone asks a question...we should answer, if infact, we have done proven CBX results that could help. This is the reason I try to limit my posts on items that I actually have done and know that work on CBXs .....versus theory and/or replying to everything.

Onward........

[EMS]

If you would find a way to stop taking everything personal, life would probably less stressful for you