I think, at last, I am on to something

[daves79x]

Aris:
I did some more looking and came to this conclusion: I believe each engine may be different with respect to these holes intersecting. The top crank cap hole, from what I can see, has no 'intended' complete passageway to an oil galley or passage. It seems that the threads just slightly intrude into the passage, therefore a potential place for cross-contamination and leaks. I can blow air through these crevices, but you really can't see much of a 'hole'. There just seems to be very thin threads in places. Some engines may exhibit this more or less, depending on exactly the spacing of the passages in any one engine. I guess my contention is that on some engines, there would be little or no oil seeping from that hole, whereas on others, a lot could. Hence Honda provided to 'fix' on every engine in the form of the o-ring there.

An additional thing I did was to run a tap in every threaded hole in the cases before assembly. I assume you may have too, Aris. This cleaned a lot of junk out further than could be done with compressed air and solvent or water. This is where I found the cap bolt holes intersecting with the main bearing oil galleys.

Enjoy your ride today!

Dave

[Kool_Biker]

Dave
I would be inclined to agree with you, can't think of another 'reason'.
To add insult to injury, I noticed that there are similar 'holes' in the crankcase bearing holders 1 and 2 (but not in any other, I could I could find) which ALSO CONNECT to the oilways, i.e. another hiding place for contaminants !!!

P1070980.jpg

For me, the last two days work on the upper case, and my findings there, signifies the end of my quest to find what went so wrong with my engine.
I now feel I have a good explanation and can finally move on.
I will just leave you with a last picture of what happened when I pushed brake cleaner into the no 6 side upper crank cap hole - it tells the whole story by itself.

P1070995.jpg

Best, Aris

[Joner]

Aris.
After watching this story of yours, I am glad you have found the cause of the damage.
Can't wait to hear its all back together and working perfectly.

Cheers
Chris J.

[barryadam]

An additional thing I did was to run a tap in every threaded hole in the cases before assembly. I assume you may have too, Aris. This cleaned a lot of junk out further than could be done with compressed air and solvent or water.
Dave

+1

Although I use thread chasers instead of taps for this. Snap-On makes a nice metric set.
Clean and blow the tapped holes - chase the threads - clean and blow again.
I use up a LOT of Q-Tips, pipe cleaners, and gun barrel brushes. Or paint sprayer cleaning brushes. And brake cleaner and Acetone.

Good times.

Barry

[Kool_Biker]

An additional thing I did was to run a tap in every threaded hole in the cases before assembly. I assume you may have too, Aris. This cleaned a lot of junk out further than could be done with compressed air and solvent or water.
Dave

+1

Although I use thread chasers instead of taps for this. Snap-On makes a nice metric set.
Clean and blow the tapped holes - chase the threads - clean and blow again.
I use up a LOT of Q-Tips, pipe cleaners, and gun barrel brushes. Or paint sprayer cleaning brushes. And brake cleaner and Acetone.

Good times.

Barry

+1 to all above guys and then some . BUT, we might be missing the point here .
The reason I failed so spectacularly, was because I was unaware of the iffy connectivity of this hole with the main oil galleys and the little pockets around it (yes) where glass or dirt or anything could stay unnoticed. Let's face it, you insist more if you know a hole is not blind AND connected to the blood supply of the engine.
Further proof of this is that the other two cap cover holes, from each side, were tested by me only recently and found quite clean (could be cleaner, but clean).
Best, Aris

[Jeff Bennetts]

+1 to all above guys and then some . BUT, we might be missing the point here .
The reason I failed so spectacularly, was because I was unaware of the iffy connectivity of this hole with the main oil galleys and the little pockets around it (yes) where glass or dirt or anything could stay unnoticed. Let's face it, you insist more if you know a hole is not blind AND connected to the blood supply of the engine.
Aris

Aris I have to disagree, the reason you failed so spectacularly is because you thought it was necessary to bead blast the inside of your cases, in all the years of building these motors I have never heard of anyone doing this.

The elephant in the room was just getting to big to ignore, don't take my comments too harshly, its been an interesting thread and I feel for you brother.

[Kool_Biker]

Aris I have to disagree, the reason you failed so spectacularly is because you thought it was necessary to bead blast the inside of your cases, in all the years of building these motors I have never heard of anyone doing this.

The elephant in the room was just getting to big to ignore, don't take my comments too harshly, its been an interesting thread and I feel for you brother.

Jeff, you are 100% right about the elephant. I never should, and never will again, even ride near a blaster, although in the UK at least, I know of few people who do. Both!

But, over and above, I believe there is a tip here which can help any CBXr, and I would like to make the point:

These two darned holes and their iffy connection to the oiling system are particularly dangerous.
Even the simple process of helicoiling them (I have seen few), should be done with extreme caution or swarf could be allowed to enter the lubrication system at a particularly dangerous point, after the oil filter and right into the crank.

(Thinking about it, a good way to get rid of any dirt / swarf there (over and above the usual care and attention which goes with say a helicoiling operation), would be to turn the engine for few seconds on the starter, to build pressure, expelling some dirty oil through it)

Now where's that elephant emoticon ...
Aris

[Jeff Bennetts]

Aris, you have been a good sport through all of this. There has been many a CBX sent to the corner of a garage or basement to fade away to dust just because their carbs got dirty, you my friend have the patience of a Saint and the tenacity of a pit bull.

Jan is always soliciting members for editorial content for the CBXPress, this thread alone would be enough content for two magazines. I think you should receive a one year free membership for your editorial contribution.

good luck,
jeff

[Kool_Biker]

Jeff you're being too nice . All I would say is:
1. Always one to endeavour to turn problems into opportunities, I've tried to learn from my peril.
And in the process, I had few lows but so many great of highs - a rite of passage, no less.
2. I LOVE this forum, the 'editorial' has been very cathartic and I know, I would be nowhere near where I am today without all your support, enthusiasm and 'knowing' you follow (and check ) my voyage.
Cheers, Aris

[Kool_Biker]

Make sure to use Viton seals. They are usually either green or light blue in color, not black. The black seals are NBR and have a tendency to harden under heat and by time.

Oh no,
My Taiwanese CBX gasket set arrived today and my valve seals are brown. No green or light blue to be seen anywhere. How can I tell if they are Viton?

P1080003.jpg

Help!
Aris

[daves79x]

Aris:
I really don't know how to tell what material you have there. You'll have to make the call, I suppose, whether to use them or get the known ones. You probably won't see a failure in your lifetime of the ones you have there.

Dave

[Kool_Biker]

Aris:
I really don't know how to tell what material you have there. You'll have to make the call, I suppose, whether to use them or get the known ones. You probably won't see a failure in your lifetime of the ones you have there.

Dave

Dave
You are a wise man and I will follow your advice .. despite now and then sending chills up my spine, re my lifetime
Aris

[daves79x]

Aris:
Poor choice of words - I should have said OUR lifetimes!

Dave

[Kool_Biker]

Valve springs day today.
All outer ones look normal, have the same lengths BUT, few (NOT ALL) seem to be exceedingly worn as shown below in the foreground, when compared to a brand new one.

P1080022 (1).jpg

Seems quite excessive to me. Any ideas as to why? And what constitutes a service limit?
Cheers, Aris

[daves79x]

Aris:
I'm putting my exhaust valves back in tonight. I'll check the spring wear on some and let you know. These would be from a 38,000 mile engine.

Dave