I think, at last, I am on to something

[ajs350]

No carbon and no pit marks. Either the seat is harder than the valve which is why only the valve has damage from the glass beads or the valve had some other issue that caused the surface to break away. Hard to tell.
As you are replacing the valves I would move on and continue your quest to flush out all ofthe oil passages.
Good luck Aris.
Ross

[Kool_Biker]

I would be inclined to think the valves were at fault to start with BUT, it is cylinder 1, isn't it? And who believes in chance ;)
Thanks for the wishes.
I have had the cases open and cleaned, looking at me every day, for over 3 weeks now :)
I am still puzzled at how I could have missed something so gross. After all, its not rocket science; all galleys are logically sculpted and to date, I have not managed to find any little 'crypts' where the glass residue was hidden, waiting ...
But of course, we all know, it did, and it was ...
So, I will not start the rebuild unless I find something solid, pointing to where I went wrong as I cannot forget those two entire afternoons by the entrance of my garage, spending hours and hours pushing water and compressed air through every nook and cranny and then baptising the entire half cases in a bath of water and soap.
In the end, I remember, I was soaked more than the cases!!!

The 'good news' is I have just about finished dismantling everything, almost down to single P/N and have done most measurements. Thankfully, and as Don has repeatedly stated, the damage has indeed been contained mainly in cylinder 1.
Having said that, I know my cam journals have suffered a slight hit as well, and I am about to delve into this last aspect of the assessment; fingers crossed ...

Best, Aris

[EMS]

Don't be too critical of the cam journals, Aris. they never look perfect. Before you throw out a perfectly fine head....

[Kool_Biker]

Mike

I will count on you guys to guide me through what is tolerable re my head (CBX head, not Aris), before deciding ...
I am in the process of taking a few pics. I will then post them and we can all have an intelligent conversation about it.

As you might have guessed by now, my number one problem over here is, I have very little if anything to compare my CBX engine bits with.
What might look wrong to me could be OK and (expensive!) and vice versa (dangerous!).

Cheers, Aris

[Don]

I am still puzzled at how I could have missed something so gross. After all, its not rocket science; all galleys are logically sculpted and to date, I have not managed to find any little 'crypts' where the glass residue was hidden, waiting ...
But of course, we all know, it did, and it was ....

Dave is probably every bit as sanitary and meticulous when rebuilding these things as you are Aris and he warned me about possibly finding 'junk' in the oil screen after he put my engine together - He's seen it many times and has redoubled his efforts to make sure everything is sparkling clean before buttoning them up, but you still find trash afterwards. He strongly advised me to drop the pan and clean out the screen everytime I changed the oil until it eventually turns up clean. There was a good bit of residue in the screen the first oil change and maybe a little less than half as much the second time and relatively none the third time I removed it

It does make you scratch your head and wonder . . . .

Don

[Kool_Biker]

Here are the initial findings re my cylinder head cam journals.
All journals are seemingly OK, except one, No 4, as shown below.

P1070388.jpg

As far as I can make it, it has been caused by the usual suspect, glass.
And here's the proof; caught in all its 'pink glory' within the magnified red square section of the above!

P1070570.jpg

At its worse, there is lip of <.1mm and wonder how serious this is.
The remaining journals are all either very good and shiny, or a bit dulled, I guess a paste of really fine glass in oil, or not sure what for that matter.
Now I will get my platigauge out and do some accurate measurements, see where my tolerances are.

BTW any advise on how I should clean these with something aggressive enough to take away any remaining glass but gentle enough to do as little damage as possible?
How is 800 or 1000 to 1200 wet & dry in water or oil using light finger pressure?

The saga continues!
Aris

[Kool_Biker]

So here's what I have found re the worst offending camshaft bank, namely 'Exhaust Left'.

P1070690.jpg

The way I read it, everything is well within tolerance.
Starting from the right:
1 & 4 should be <0.12mm, they are <0.07
2 & 3 should be <0.14mm, they are <0.06
Armed with this new found confidence in the numbers, I am now planning to smooth the cam shells with NOTHING more aggressive than a bit of Solvol Aluminium polisher, applied with the softest felt wheel on my Dremel, at low speed.
I will also do the same on the cams themselves with Solvol Steel polisher.
Any thoughts?
Aris

[daves79x]

Aris:
Sounds like a good plan. Don't expect to get them perfect, just remove the contaminents and smooth things up a bit. I'm still scratching my head over the #1 combustion chamber/valve damage to #1. No idea how glass could have gotten in there to cause problems.

Dave

[Kool_Biker]

I'm still scratching my head over the #1 combustion chamber/valve damage to #1. No idea how glass could have gotten in there to cause problems.

Dave

Dave, although I too do not believe in chance, let's treat the damaged No 1 valves - for now at least - as a coincidence ...
They will both be replaced with new. Most important, the No 1 valve seats seems to be perfect.

Aris

[NobleHops]

Aris, I hesitate to ask, but are you going to reuse that oil cooler? That'd be a candidate for replacement in my book, along with the lines I'm afraid.

N.

[Kool_Biker]

Nils

I think this is a very interesting question and frankly, I am not there yet
But let me ask WHY I should change them.
Having spent hours and hours (and hours ) trying to mentally reconstruct what happened in my engine, my most probable theory to date is that glass was left where shown below (in pink), moving under flow, heat and pressure to the LHS of the crank and cams doing what it did.

CBX Lubrication (2).jpg

In the process, the glass was finely ground (through a very expensive mill ) and fell in the sump.
But it started its journey, AFTER the oil pump and filter, inevitably finding itself after its murderous voyage into the sump.
Now THERE IS EVIDENCE, there was very little glass through the oil pump, both the high pressure but also low pressure circuit. Also and despite my efforts I could find no grains of glass or damage anywhere near the gearbox, primary gear, primary chain tensioner, etc. etc.
And as we can see from the diagram, the only way up to the oil cooler is through this pump !

So when I come to it, I will thoroughly empty the cooler (still full of oil) and search its contents for any evidence of glass (as I have done in other parts of the engine). I do not believe I will find any, but will do so in any case and report here.
After that, I will thoroughly clean it inside (and out!) and I believe, recommission it.

Changing said parts, is only money. And arguably, if I changed the cooler I would go for the bigger one, so there would be a side benefit.
But these are my thoughts to date, and as I have made it blatantly obvious to all, this is a hell of a learning curve for me and have no definitive answers for anything
Your comments and advise always hugely appreciated.
Aris

[NobleHops]

Aris,

I should not even pipe up in this thread probably, it just seemed like the cooler is an un-inspectable place with lots of places for a grain of glass bead to hide. As you point out, anything that transited the pump might be ground to dust by now, but maybe it made it through. If it's there to be found, Aris I believe you will find it.

N.

[EMS]

Anything that is left in the cooler goes into the sump and then through the oil filter before it goes back into the engine. While no risk should be taken, it seems that this is an unlikely place for further comlications to originate.

[Kool_Biker]

Back to the cam journals, I polished them all today, lightly, with a hard mop and aluminium polishing paste, and they all seem to have responded quite well.

P1070706.jpg

P1070700.jpg

I guess the secret here is not to overdo it, as Dave warned, which is, oh so tempting.
Very easy to do on the top (removable) parts, not so easy on those on the head. But in reality, it is these top parts which get most of the loading (as the cams try to push the valves to open) and hence wear ...
Tomorrow is another day ...

[Kool_Biker]

Aris:
I'm still scratching my head over the #1 combustion chamber/valve damage to #1. No idea how glass could have gotten in there to cause problems.

Dave

I love old photos ... looking carefully at the pic below, taken during the previous assembly of my engine, you can see the 'damaged' cylinder no 1 exhaust valve(s) in all their glory!

DSC07375 (1).jpg

So the damage was there from BEFORE, and out goes the theory this might be glass related!
Some good news al last, BUT makes me wonder why these valves were used in my newly refurbished head (a job outsourced by myself at the time, to a competent firm in the UK).
In any case I will have them both replaced so I will hone my valve lapping skills
Aris