Still smokin'

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:13 pm

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I finally got off my lazy a$$ and installed the replacement head with less than 500 miles on it. Got it back together while ago and darned if it isn't still smoking just like before. I am pretty sure I didn't break any rings when I installed the refurbed cylinders but now I am wondering. The rings came from Z1 and I couldn't tell any difference between the top 2 rings in each package and there wasn't a beveled edge on any of them like the shop manual describes so I just made sure the lettering faced up and installed them. I staggered the gaps like the book shows. The bottom 3 ring set was easy and as in the book. I did cut some corners and didn't stick a ring in each cylinder and measure the gap so maybe the cylinders were bored and resurfaced after all. I was supposed to have received honed only cylinders and didn't check. The clearance between the pistons and cylinder walls was pretty close. Where can I get 4 Honda ring compressors?

I can't bear to go at it again and this winter will probably pull the engine clear out and put it on the stand to make it easier to do all the measuring.

alimey4u2 · Post by **alimey4u2** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:37 pm

Connect a long plastic tube to the crank case vent, stick the tube in your ear, slowly turn the engine over with a wrench & as each piston comes over compression......listen.

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:30 pm

What am I listening for?

alimey4u2 · Post by **alimey4u2** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:58 pm

A hisssss, should be about the same volume ( noise ) & duration for every cylinder.... You will tell if one or all are "out"...

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:39 pm

Thanks but I can't hear well enough. Would a compression test indicate if it is the rings? I will probably park the bike until winter.

alimey4u2 · Post by **alimey4u2** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:10 am

twinegar wrote:Thanks but I can't hear well enough. Would a compression test indicate if it is the rings? I will probably park the bike until winter.

Yes a compression test will tell you if the rings are passing but will also show bad valve sealing.

EMS · Post by **EMS** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:42 am

If you have bad rings, a squirt of oil into the spark plug hole should bring a significantly different reading.

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:57 am

I will drag the ol' hag out next week and see what readings I get. This is real frustrating and I am having to learn things that a mechanic went to school to learn. I am sure there is a lot of info missing from the shop manual that a mechanic would already know. I am considering taking it to one but I imagine it would cost a lot and I am already neck deep ($$$$) into this bike.

I am sure the head is sound because it was barely used. I did pull one valve to check the seal and it was still tight and pliable so whatever is wrong must be with the pistons. I can't think of any other way for oil to get into the combustion chamber. The airbox is oil free.

Thanks for the help.

alimey4u2 · Post by **alimey4u2** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:40 am

Not sure if this is even relevant but....

On the base of the cylinder block there are large O- rings around each cylinder sleeve....

Does anyone know what duty these serve...I always wondered ??

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:26 pm

I have been wondering about those large o'rings also. The only thing I can think of is that they keep oil from sucking between the sleeve and cylinders and into the combustion chamber.

Where can I get ring compressors, preferably Honda brand?

alimey4u2 · Post by **alimey4u2** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:05 pm

If you do the job often I spose it's best to use the special ring compressors but brass shimstock, wrapped around & tied with cable ties ( or hose clips) does a wonderful job...

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:14 pm

I figure that because of the number of bikes I have investing in the Honda tool would pay off but they seem elusive. Even doing a web search for HONDA RING COMPRESSOR TOOL isn't getting me there. Do you think diesel radiator hose clamps would work?

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:25 pm

Try here maybe?

Click on ring compressor sleeves hone brushes towards the bottom

http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Motorcycle.aspx

Or here,

http://www.m-and-d.com/small_engine_too ... d=RJzYq8Gt

Small Engine Tool
BRIGGS/19230 - Stens 750323
Ring Compressor. Replaces OEM: BRIGGS and STRATTON 19230 Specs: Approved By Engine Manufacturers Expandable From 1 3/4" To 3 1/2" 2" Depth To Compress All Rings At Once

or here...

http://www.midwesttechnology.com/Small- ... 162-14887/

twinegar · Post by **twinegar** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:03 am

Thanks Terry. Sure hope I can know this problem out. This X runs as good as my other one. I am tempted to disconnect the crank vent hose to see if oil is somehow getting into the intake system. I know smoke is blowing into the case and coming up thru the plenum so maybe oil is also creating a sort of loop.