Washer under main needle

[OldGold]

My 80 CBX is extremely hard to start. I know that everyone is thinking, So. I had a 78 Goldwing that was also hard to start but by putting a #6 SS washer under the main jet needle, the bike started immediately. Has anyone tried this idea and since the #6 washer does not fit in the CBX carb, is there an alternative?

Thanks to all for your responses.
Howard

[bikeymikey748]

Ola,Howard!
I'm assuming that your starting woes have been a progressive decline sort of situation, that you have made no modifications to the motor/intake/exhaust to account for the poor starting. If that's the case, your earlier Gold Wing success seems a happy coincidence. If the CBX was running well in the past, with no recent mods, changing the jetting, as a corrective measure, doesn't seem the way to proceed.
One circuit ( idle and main, in this case) has nothing to do with the other. In fact, could you please provide more details about the symptoms. Could it be possible the problem might not be carb related?
Does it crank normally (speed/ starter clutch engagement/duration)?
Does it try to 'catch', but have trouble continuing?
Does it,initially, start well and then stumble as the choke is disengaged?
Any difference between cold and hot starts?
It's all in the details

[OldGold]

Ola,Howard!
I'm assuming that your starting woes have been a progressive decline sort of situation, that you have made no modifications to the motor/intake/exhaust to account for the poor starting. If that's the case, your earlier Gold Wing success seems a happy coincidence. If the CBX was running well in the past, with no recent mods, changing the jetting, as a corrective measure, doesn't seem the way to proceed.
One circuit ( idle and main, in this case) has nothing to do with the other. In fact, could you please provide more details about the symptoms. Could it be possible the problem might not be carb related?
Does it crank normally (speed/ starter clutch engagement/duration)?
Does it try to 'catch', but have trouble continuing?
Does it,initially, start well and then stumble as the choke is disengaged?
Any difference between cold and hot starts?
It's all in the details

Mike,Thanks for taking an interest in this issue. I should have definately provided more history for better diagnosis. I bought the bike three years ago and it was in a state of neglect. It had a 6 into one header, was hard to start and would not idle below 3000 RPM. There was no air cleaner. I removed the engine for cleaning and to get to the carbs for overhaul. During carb rebuild, I discovered that the idle circuit was plugged and the main jets were too large. I cleaned the carbs in a sonic tank and did remove the idle jets which I later learned was a very good move. After installation of the engine using a stock (Honda) exhaust and air cleaner and stock jetting, I balanced the carbs and the engine now idles smooth, runs up to 9000 RPM without hesitation and pulls from low RPM when I forget to downshift with no problems. The choke pulls all the way and cannot be lifted more by trying to lift it more mechanically. I am now wondering as I write this, if with the air cleaner removed, I can look down the air box inlet to observe the center to carbs choke plates. That would be the sure way to know if the chokes are going full closed. I will try that. Otherwise, the only procedure that seems to help to a small degree is to "pump" the throttle grip to get the accelerator pump to inject gas. Another idea I just had would be to squirt starting fluid in the intake with the air cleaner removed to see if the problem is fuel related. If warm, the engine starts immediately.

When the engine was removed, I adjusted the valves and cam chains and checked timing statically. I checked the spark by removing plugs and cranking the engine. The spark is blue to white and looks normal to me but this is the first bike that I have inspected the spark on. On a car, I would consider it has good spark. I have also run the engine in the dark with the tank removed to see if there was any spark arching. All appeared good.

The engine cranks well. In fact, I keep thinking I am going to ruin the starter. It does catch and then have trouble remaining running. It will do this several times, with each time running just alittle longer until it chugs long enough to suddenly come alive and run on fast idle. With warm up, the choke can be decreased until it is fully warm with no issues. It will never start well cold, but as mentioned prior, it starts easily if warm.

I am sure that I am missing some detail or even something obvious. Your interest and help is greatly appreciated.

Howard

[bikeymikey748]

Great stuff,Howard,reading through the info you supplied, we can rule out a bunch of stuff
I'd look into choke/fast idle issues first,if I were you.
Each bank of choke plates has a,light, spring (so the motor can't be over-choked & stall on a cold start as it runs up. Engine vacume can pull the plates off just enough for the motor to breath). Any misalignment/binding on the choke plate(s)/shafts won't allow the choke to be fully engaged. You may see the lever as fully engaged,it doesn't necessarily make it so at the plates. Built up deposits in this area (no air filter) will have the same effect. You might also want to verify your fast idle setup. If you are certain the choke plates are closing fully,but still experience reluctant starts, try adjusting your idle speed knob 1-2 full turns in (increasing speed),engage the choke, try a start & see if there is any improvement. If there is, likely you need to adjust your fast idle speed to spec. ( a fast check with the motor off is to fully engage the choke and,looking at the throttle linkage, see if it opens slightly,if at all.).
Hope this helps.

[OldGold]

Mike, I found the problem. I took off the top of the carb on the right side so that I could see the choke plate, and to my surprise it was not moving. If I touched it, it would spring closed. I assume the entire right three carbs are not choking and maybe the left three also. I am going to take the tank off on another day and remove the air filter to see what is going on. I figured it might be something basic when you said that washers under the jets would not help. Thanks so much for getting me on the right track.

Howard

[bikeymikey748]

Thanks so much for getting me on the right track.

Just 'paying it forward', Howard! Besides, you sound like a heads up sort. Just a matter of time,really, before you would have sussed it out on your own.
Congrats, you're, yet another, forum success story
You know, moments like this are just made for a single malt. Is it just me, or does that last remark come out a lot in my posts

[OldGold]

[
You know, moments like this are just made for a single malt. Is it just me, or does that last remark come out a lot in my posts [/quote]

Its not just you, single malts are THE reason for taste buds.