For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

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EMS
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For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by EMS »

Mel:

A lot of speculation and conventional wisdom is being spread, but.....
The fact is, that Germany - and maybe some other countries - did NOT get an SC03 VIN number (you call it CBX-A in the U.K.) CBX. Honda still offered a 1980 model, however, and sold CB1 CBXes with red AND black bodywork that year. Silver wheels and all. Tailpieces had no lid as the scaffolding underneath did not contain a compartment. So, yes, there are original black "1979" CBXes. It is one of these irregularities you will find with the CBX if you look at different countries. Very much the same as the U.K. never received a CBX-C in Pearl Altair White from Honda directly, they were all Magnum Silver. And like all Prolinks in most European countries had to be ordered with the saddlebag (pannier) option if you wanted them. Otherwise they came without.
The fact that silver tailpieces were available with lids is due to the fact that Honda replaced the single support (bumper) scaffolding with the dual-support and lidded tailpiece in the aftermarket and discontinued the original design. This was done much later than 1980 though. The first couple of years, a seat for a CBX-Z (CB1) and SC03 (CBX-A) was not available without the tailpiece and had to be bought with the plastic part attached. I hope this sheds a little light on it.

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Black 79's

Post by cbxmel »

Thanks Mike for your informative post in response to my enquiries about black 79's sold in 1980. Would be interested to know where you picked up this information as I have received so many different views on this issue. Nobody has yet come up with a picture of such a machine and I have not as yet met or spoken an owner of one. Did any US serviceman in Germany perhaps own one whilst stationed there? I am going to contact several English speaking Germans I know in their club to see if they can throw any light on the issue. Will let you know what I find out.
Thanks again. Mel

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Post by Louis »

There was a black tail with out a lid with a 422 part #. Honda would not just make a tail for no reason unless ther was one.
77210-422-000zc cowl sub assy., RR *NM-1* ( this is a black # as per there parts book)

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Post by Jeff Bennetts »

Louis wrote:There was a black tail with out a lid with a 422 part #. Honda would not just make a tail for no reason unless ther was one.
77210-422-000zc cowl sub assy., RR *NM-1* ( this is a black # as per there parts book)
Saw one and almost bought it at the 1st Mid-Ohio VDays the club went to, it was in the OEM box, the guy wanted $150 for it and I passed, Chuck Ewing bought it 10 mins later.

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Re: Black 79's

Post by EMS »

cbxmel wrote:Thanks Mike for your informative post in response to my enquiries about black 79's sold in 1980. Would be interested to know where you picked up this information ..... Nobody has yet come up with a picture of such a machine and I have not as yet met or spoken an owner of one. Thanks again. Mel
Mel, I am from Germany. I bought my Candy Glory Red CBX new in November of 1978. I was somewhat into the scene back there for a few years. A father of a fellow student of mine had a Honda shop where I bought mine. I saw several of these black 79s. Juha Paakkunainen from Finland owns one of them. It came from Germany.

As far as Louis' argument is concerned, I am not sure, however, if the lidless black tail is a definite proof that these bikes existed as these parts were already listed in the CBX parts book editions that were published long before 1980 bikes were built.

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Mel Watkins Black 79's

Post by cbxmel »

Hi Mike,
Many thanks. I have been in touch with Juha who has given me details of the history of his bike. It would appear Honda did not officially release a black 79 in 1980 but a number of dealers in Germany decided as the silver and red 79's were selling slowly they would ask Hnoda for a supply of black tailpieces which they could match up with 1980 black front fenders and gas tanks to produce a limited number of black 79's which they thought would sell well. Juha has seen one other black 79 in Finland and that was again one of the German dealer modded bikes. Many thanks for your input. I am also expecting further information from a contact in Germany so I have the full story. cheers Mel

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Re: Mel Watkins Black 79's

Post by EMS »

cbxmel wrote:Hi Mike,
It would appear Honda did not officially release a black 79 in 1980 but a number of dealers in Germany decided as the silver and red 79's were selling slowly they would ask Hnoda for a supply of black tailpieces which they could match up with 1980 black front fenders and gas tanks to produce a limited number of black 79's which they thought would sell well.
Mel, and you really believe this? Honda making black tailpieces for a number of dealers? What would have kept the German dealers to paint a few tailpieces themselves?
The German club magazine "Der 6 Zylinder" in issue No 60 of Spring 2008 lists only about 10-15 1980 CBXes registered in Germany, while there are around 1500 1979s and 1000 ProLinks
As I stated in the first sentence of my first post.......
Last edited by EMS on Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by alimey4u2 »

My question.....

Does it really matter, will we "ever" know ?

1980 CBX Candy Glory Red with unpainted semi gloss side covers, Joan Claybrook speedometer, Marysville "A" model owner, with " original" (self dealer prep) reputable provenance..... :wink:

In reality, I think we're being presumptuous to think there was some kind of "finite order" in this supply/demand chain... Just a little voice in the wilderness.. :wink:
Last edited by alimey4u2 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Louis »

Larry, I have a better one. How about a 81 with a volts meter?

cbxchris

Post by cbxchris »

Louis wrote:There was a black tail with out a lid with a 422 part #. Honda would not just make a tail for no reason unless ther was one.
77210-422-000zc cowl sub assy., RR *NM-1* ( this is a black # as per there parts book)
I currently have one on my black 79. I took it out of the box directly shipped to the dealer by honda....

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Post by cbxian »

Guys,

You should keep an eye on German eBay, the 1979 CBX-Z's in original black bodywork do come up for sale occasionally ... so there must be a few about? This one I saw on eBay about 1 1/2 or 2 years ago. See one of the photos from the Auction below ...

Black CBX-Z : album_pic.php?pic_id=3501

The photos (ableit eBay fuzzy photos) does show a low mileage original black CBX-Z.

Cheers, IAN
********************

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Re: Black 79's

Post by LONGCLOSE »

cbxmel wrote:Thanks Mike for your informative post in response to my enquiries about black 79's sold in 1980. Would be interested to know where you picked up this information as I have received so many different views on this issue. Nobody has yet come up with a picture of such a machine and I have not as yet met or spoken an owner of one. Did any US serviceman in Germany perhaps own one whilst stationed there? I am going to contact several English speaking Germans I know in their club to see if they can throw any light on the issue. Will let you know what I find out.
Thanks again. Mel
Firstly let me introduce myself, I live between the UK and South Africa and have started building a collection of bikes predominantly Honda's. At the grand age of 53 years of age my wife has let me loose to go and relive my youth now my kids have flown the nest. All those bikes and posters I had on the wall as a teenager are being realised from a CBX-Z, a Prolink, CB1100RC x 2 and 2 x CB1100F 1 Euro spec and one US spec. All these bikes apart from the prolink are rebuild projects.Have quite a few more but want to keep on the subject, so Hi to you all to join such a great forum and knowledge base is a pleasure.

So I am sorry to open the thread again after such a long time but felt it necessary to try and validate if my bike is one of those mystical "79" black ones. I heard a rumour that 300 were produced in late 79 but cannot remember where I heard it. But to the point the CBX Z with frame number CB1E 2020452 is black see the picture attached. I believe it to be original as the bike is only has 26,000KM's on the clock (16000 miles) before the engine blew and the bike was left standing, no one in their right mind would respray a bike after only 16000 miles.

I got an eyeglass to the tail piece screws and checked for a different colours underneath and looked for overspray there was no indication this was a different colour. So maybe the rumour was right, I also no of another 79 black one in SA not far from where I live.

I am not a CBX historical guru so will not argue the case only telling you what I have and what I checked for before having the bike completely resprayed in black. Will send some pics when complete, also on another note the original engine was missing but is being fitted with engine number CB1E 2024615 which is some 700 higher than the historical archives have reported.

I look forward to thoughts opinions and maybe some facts confirming black did exist in 1979!
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Re: Black 79's

Post by wyly »

LONGCLOSE wrote:
So I am sorry to open the thread again after such a long time but felt it necessary to try and validate if my bike is one of those mystical "79" black ones. I heard a rumour that 300 were produced in late 79 but cannot remember where I heard it. But to the point the CBX Z with frame number CB1E 2020452 is black see the picture attached. I believe it to be original as the bike is only has 26,000KM's on the clock (16000 miles) before the engine blew and the bike was left standing, no one in their right mind would respray a bike after only 16000 miles.

I got an eyeglass to the tail piece screws and checked for a different colours underneath and looked for overspray there was no indication this was a different colour. So maybe the rumour was right, I also no of another 79 black one in SA not far from where I live.

I am not a CBX historical guru so will not argue the case only telling you what I have and what I checked for before having the bike completely resprayed in black. Will send some pics when complete, also on another note the original engine was missing but is being fitted with engine number CB1E 2024615 which is some 700 higher than the historical archives have reported.

I look forward to thoughts opinions and maybe some facts confirming black did exist in 1979!
not the best of evidence but as one of the few original owners I still have my January 1978 invoice for my cbx and I specified black... the colour choices offered me at the time were red, silver or black, if black wasn't being produced why would they have offered it... shortly after placing the order I was informed they couldn't supply a black Z, I don't recall why I was denied my selection, probably because it was a euro option only...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by EMS »

My original post regarding this basically has all the known facts. Yes, there were black 1979s sold through the ED (European Direct Sales) and DK/DM (General Export) channels.
Check your carburetor identification, if it is a "VB61A" carb, it is an ED version, and should have a kph speedometer.
If it has a "VB60A" carb, and has a mph speedo and is a DM version, if it has a kph speedo, it is a DK version.
Z model engines had serial numbers up to 2024711 in ED bikes, so your motor number is not out of the ordinary.

If the bike is originally a South African bike, it makes all that less applicable and would put the bike in the "mystery" category.
SA bikes had VB60A carburetors, the highest engine number was 20 21598. Also, original 1979 Z bikes for SA did not have a Sport Kit (low handlebars)

There is always the possibility that a dealer changed the bodywork to black, because the customer wanted a black bike

There is absolutely no evidence anywhere regarding the number of black Z models. Honda does not have that record and I don't think anybody has.
It is safe to say, however, that all Zs that seem to be originally black are of high VIN-numbers above 20 20000, indicating they were built and sold in early 1979 and the A model colors and specs had been announced already. As production of the A did not start until June of 1979, one of the theories is, that Honda made Zs available in black to fill the early demand for that color.

Any other questions, send me an e-mail to mike.simon70@yahoo.com
wyly wrote:

but as one of the few original owners I still have my January 1978 invoice for my cbx
I think that came up before, you probably meant January 1979 as production of the CBX did not start until April 1978.

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Re: For Mel Watkins - Black 1979 CBX

Post by wyly »

EMS wrote:
wyly wrote:

but as one of the few original owners I still have my January 1978 invoice for my cbx
I think that came up before, you probably meant January 1979 as production of the CBX did not start until April 1978.
nope, I pulled out my records...slight error in memory February not January(it was a long, long time ago :oops: )...I bought the Z before it left the factory, my invoice is dated Feb 6 1978...my serial number cb1 2001498 puts it's manufacture in April of 78, based on annual insurance records it's most likely that I took possession in May...
CBX a work in progress, still improving...GS1150EFE completed and awaiting modifications.....RD350, remnants in boxes scattered throughout the garage

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