Black 79?

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Black 79?

Postby cbxmel » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:44 pm

Hi guys,

Thought I would set up another thread to leave sandcast thread to sandcast issues. Here is an image of a Black 1000Z on cover of a French magazine 'La Becane' back in 1979. Hope of interest. Comments please.

best Mel UK #1876 ps the article with the image is in French which unfortunately I do not speak.
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Re: Black 79?

Postby CBXTRA6 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:45 pm

Thank you Mel.
This is the reason why I asked , after reading the sandcast thread ,about the comment questionning the authenticity of a black Z model.
Valuable information was provided by the very few "historians" of our community, including you of course, but I remembered that this was a topic discussed, debated before, and I did not remember all the details or outcome, but I did remember that there were indeed black 79 in Europe,NOT 1980, and this magazine is one of the proofs I was hoping would re-surface. I accept the conclusion that the one on E Bay may have been a fake , repainted. Also the "possible" explanation provided by Mike S that dealers may have swapped bodywork to black in between model years, hence the silver comstars and early shocks, but that tail section remains a mystery.
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Re: Black 79?

Postby cbxmel » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:23 pm

Thanks for your interest. I am inclined to agree with you over the black bike on ebay. Will go through my archive to see if I have any further images or articles on black 79's. Could take a while as getting on for 3000 files to go through!
thanks again Mel #1876
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Re: Black 79?

Postby EMS » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:35 pm

I don't think anybody is debating that there were black 1979s out there. I have several pictures in my files that I took myself. The question is, were these factory made or dealer produced bikes.
We may never really have an answer for that. The first parts catalog I have for the CBX-Z (one without the CBX-A numbers) does NOT have the black bodywork parts listed.
The bike on ebay is in the U.S. and there were no black 1979s in the U.S. It is definitely is not one of the elusive "Euro" black 79s. The tailpiece was clearly painted as it showed a completely wrong application of the pinstripes. The seller deleted the picture
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Re: Black 79?

Postby Louis » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:28 pm

EMS wrote:I don't think anybody is debating that there were black 1979s out there. I have several pictures in my files that I took myself. The question is, were these factory made or dealer produced bikes.
We may never really have an answer for that. The first parts catalog I have for the CBX-Z (one without the CBX-A numbers) does NOT have the black bodywork parts listed.
The bike on ebay is in the U.S. and there were no black 1979s in the U.S. It is definitely is not one of the elusive "Euro" black 79s. The tailpiece was clearly painted as it showed a completely wrong application of the pinstripes. The seller deleted the picture

Part # for the 79 tails
77210-422-000za -Color- NH-101M-U which is the silver #
77210-422-000zb- Color- R-101C-U which is the red#
77210-422-000zc- Color- NH-1 which is the black.

Mike, I know you have the colors and part #, but just posted for all those that do not know of them. This # come out of the Honda parts book #2.
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Re: Black 79?

Postby CBXTRA6 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:23 am

EMS wrote :
<<The few black "1979s" that I have encountered are ALL extremely high VIN/serial numbers, i.e.: over CB1-20 20000, which puts them all into a production date of January 1979 and later.
There was no 1980 SC03/CBX-A model sold directly by Honda in many countries in Europe, including Germany. The only 1980 models that have appeared in Europe are ED and DK models from Japanese production and private imports.
The production of the 1979 (CB1,CBX-Z) model ended in February of 1979
The production of the 1980 (SC03/CBX-A) model started in June of 1979

Considering these facts, I do not believe that any 1979 spec model in January or February of 1979 left the Honda factory with black bodywork. I just don't think that Honda had black bodywork to go on a bike 4 or 5 months before they officially started to build models like that.
I believe, that due to the lack of official 1980 models, Honda dealers converted leftover late 1979 models to black after the black bodywork became available.>>


Then we got mystery ! The magazine above was published in 1979, production of that bike would more likely be in 1978 rather than the only 2 months left for the Z 79 model run (Jan. & Feb. as you stated), especially since the SC03 did not start production until the summer of that year. So, I do believe in the possibility that there were indeed black 79 produced and shipped by HONDA to certain (european) markets in 1978. Even if Honda dealers swapped bodywork later, it did not make the 79 floor stock become 80 model, too many differences besides the color. And also the fact , as pointed out, that the solid black tail section (with no lid) existed before the release of the SC03, and there had to be a reason for Honda to make it.

Anyway, thanks all for your contribution.
JP
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Re: Black 79?

Postby jnnngs » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:46 am

Hi,

I just wonder if the answer is somewhat simpler:
- stock Z's as manufactured did not leave the factory with black paintwork
- thro' market testing, and as part of A development the desire for black paintwork was identified (this would be many months before the A's started production)
- to see if there was demand, they painted (a few) Z tanks (17520-422-010ZC) and tail pieces (77210-422-000zc), gave them part numbers, and made them available as a separate option. Importers, dealers, and even Honda themselves equipped a few Z bikes to see market reaction in advance of full A production.

That's my theory anyway...

Paul.
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Re: Black 79?

Postby daves79x » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:08 am

Very possible Paul. Some dealer in Germany (or France) somewhere knows. Interesting too is that the bike pictured has satin side covers of the '79 (and some red '80s), instead of the gloss covers of the black '80.

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