Sandcast number 12 found!!

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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby steve murdoch icoa #5322 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:01 pm

Mel, thanks for posting the pics and thank you Patrick for providing them.
In the third pic is the rear foot peg a bit different looking than the later ones?
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:42 am

Thanks Steve,

Yes, I think slightly different as are several other items on the sandcast models. The fuse box on top of the forks has much smoother finish and with rounded corners than production model. Also, you can see in the image of the engine that sandcasts were fitted with rounded fin inserts as on my CB1-2000028 unlike production bikes which have square ones.
Thanks for your interest.

all the best Mel UK #1876 :text-thankyouyellow:
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby steve murdoch icoa #5322 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 am

Mel, promise i won't bug you with every little discrepancy noticed but i find this very interesting.
Air cooling holes drilled in the bottom fin of the lower cases?
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby daves79x » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:07 am

Steve - not sure those are holes, but can't tell exactly from the pic. Do we know for sure whether the sandcast cases were painted, or bare aluminum? Also see that the carbs have some differences from production items. The head does not have the production chrome end bolts, as were later added. Some of the early test bikes pictured in the magazines do not have them either, and some have them welded on after the bikes were made. This bike to me is a real treasure. I'd just love to pour over it in person!

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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:45 am

Hi Dave and Steve,

Yes, as far as I can see almost every sandcast I have located during my researches seems to have small differences. Some have sandcast crank cases others do not or a mix of both. This one number 12 is very similar to number 11 down in Australia and is complete sandcast in every respect. Looks like Honda sent them all over the planet! Once I have finished looking into number 12 I will put my findings into an article for the CBXPRESS with plenty of images. Your interest is much appreciated. I agree the most noticeable difference from the production die cast bikes is the lack of the chrome bolt on either side of the cylinder head.

cheers Mel#1876 :text-thankyouyellow: :text-thankyouyellow:
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby Larry Zimmer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:19 pm

Dave -- might we need a trip to Belgium?!?! :D
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 pm

You can stay here on the way Larry. Less than two hours by air from Manchester.
regards Mel #1876
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby EMS » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:11 pm

cbxmel wrote:Hi Dave and Steve,

Yes, as far as I can see almost every sandcast I have located during my researches seems to have small differences. Some have sandcast crank cases others do not or a mix of both. This one number 12 is very similar to number 11 down in Australia and is complete sandcast in every respect. Looks like Honda sent them all over the planet!


Of course, the pre-production models were sent all over. Considering that production did not start until April of 1978 and most all magazine introductions had been already published by then, these early bikes were everywhere.
This particular one having a "metric" speedometer shows a top indication of 220 km/h instead of the 240 km/h as for the production model. Very much like the "mileage" version, which had a 140 mph indication instead of 150 mph.

The real interesting question wouild be, how many are out there and what are they.
Again considering that the first chassis number sold to the public was 20 00042 and such motor was 20 00060, one would wonder what were the other 41 frames and 59 motors.
My records have the highest "pre-sale" VIN as CB1-20 00032 with motor CB1E-20 00037, alas, no information if that was a sandcast also.
Personally, I don't think they were all "sandcasts". It is very likely, that Honda built quite a few production bikes and used them for initial shakedown and component verification.
If any of them survived, they are probably stowed away in one of Honda's basement.
Several people have been to the Honda museum in Japan and seen the CBX on display there. Nobody ever reported what ID numbers that bike has.

I have been ridiculed and called names by quite a few in the past about trying to put together straight facts about the history. But I really think that we are the last few who can keep everything true. You already see all kind of people spreading fantasy facts about the CBX, like the ebay seller in Minnesota, who has "black" 1979 for sale as "completely original".
Just a look at the pinstripes on the tail shows that is is a repaint. And then asking over $12K...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Honda-CBX ... Ciid%253A1
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby FalldownPhil » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:36 am

Wow !! These don't come along very often.
I am really interested in the engine internals. I think it was #17 that someone ran across that needed a rebuild.
It seems to me that it had many different from production internal parts. Gears, splines, etc had different tooth counts and such.
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby daves79x » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 am

Mike - as I mentioned before, J.E. in Canada claims to have bike #37, but I do not know the engine number. But it apparently isn't #37! We do suppose the 'extra' early engines produced sometimes made their way to a non-matching frame due to accident or mechanical failure? He does say the cases are sandcast in frame #37. All very interesting. Thanks for your considerable insight, Mike.

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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby Syscrush » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:44 am

cbxmel wrote:The rear shock has dust cover similar to European 78/79 models but appears to be cnc turned to me rather than cast as on the production models over here.

In the late 70's, I would have thought that turning a pre-production part would have been more likely turned by hand, or by a machine with a mechanical template than CNC. Am I off?
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am

(1)You could be correct Phil in Toronto but Honda in those days were a law to themselves when it came to parts to fit prototypes.

(2) I have an image on no 37 with VIN plate of 32. I know James E and met him some years ago at an ICOA rally and he said definitely sandcast. I will dig it out of my archive when I have a few minutes.

cheers Mel#1876
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby Larry Zimmer » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am

cbxmel wrote:You can stay here on the way Larry. Less than two hours by air from Manchester.
regards Mel #1876

Thanks, Mel.
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:25 pm

Hi guys,

Here is an image of the complete bike sandcast CB1-2000012. As you can see it needs some work and the original mufflers have rusted out and replaced using the original headers. Long Euro rear mudguard with reflector and no side relectors on front forks.

all the best Mel UK #1876
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Re: Sandcast number 12 found!!

Postby cbxmel » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:11 am

Hi guys,

I have now posted images on my previous post VIN CB1-2000032 which is sandcast CB1E-2000037 which I think shows that the last few sandcast bikes were produced in 1978 not as previously thought to be 1977 as you can see from VIN 32 which clearly shows build date 1/78. Number 11 in Australia shows 11/77. So my parts for CB1E-2000028 should be 77 although might be early 78?!
More input very welcome. I will try and contact James E in Canada and see if he can supply further images/info.

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