Alternator Plates
- twinegar
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Re: Alternator Plates
My 80 plates still slip a lot longer than the 79 and this is after replacing bearings and both plates with new parts. From the time I start the bike to when the plates finally engage is around five minutes or maybe a bit longer. Cruising along and watching the meter the needle will twitch a couple of times and then move right up to the normal position for the rest of the day. The battery is a nearly new Yuasa maintenance free and the bike is kept on a Battery Tender Jr. when parked at home. Maybe this isn't unusual and maybe every bike is a little different. I also planned the new plates flat as I was advised to do so it seems to me that I have covered all the bases and all the parts in the diagram are present from inner bearing to outer. The 79 is charging within 30 seconds of starting.
http://www.spookytoms.com/SpookyTom-MTRCCLSTF.html
"66CL160, 68CL125A, 68CL450, 69CL125A, 69CB750, 71CB450, 71CB500, 71CB750, 72CB350F, 72CB750, 74CB750, 75CL360, 75CB550, 75CB750, 76CB750, 79CB750, 79CBX, 79CBX, 80CBX, 82CB750, 84VF700S 05HDSPORTSTER1200ROADSTER"
"66CL160, 68CL125A, 68CL450, 69CL125A, 69CB750, 71CB450, 71CB500, 71CB750, 72CB350F, 72CB750, 74CB750, 75CL360, 75CB550, 75CB750, 76CB750, 79CB750, 79CBX, 79CBX, 80CBX, 82CB750, 84VF700S 05HDSPORTSTER1200ROADSTER"
- NobleHops
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Re: Alternator Plates
Tom, I've seen folks lube the surface of these plates up with moly lube before reassembly and heard differing opinions on the merits of that. I personally did not. What did you do? Wondering if that's a variable between the two bikes. Was a new spring one of the new parts? Did you shim it after planing it?
N.
N.
Nils Menten
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)
Tucson, Arizona, USA '80 CBX, sort-of restored :-)
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Re: Alternator Plates
thanks for the responses guys. all the suggestions about welded plates makes sense but heres the funny part. i can turn the two plates in either direction. they will slip against each other but they won't come apart, short of prying with a screwdriver which i am Leary to do. when i remove the spring etc i have the spring seat washer, the spring and then only one washer??? i think there should be a thrust washer AND a regular washer against coupling A? thanks for the exploded view. i do have a manual and have going through it like crazy. the manual matches the one you sent. i am stumped!
thanks!
kent
thanks!
kent
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Re: Alternator Plates
Kent:
Go ahead and use a hammer and screwdriver to drive them apart - you won't hurt anything. You should have a thick fiber washer stuck to the drive plate, plus a thin steel shim washer that the spring rides on. You need at least those 2. See what condition the plates are in - badly grooved, worn down to where there is no oil groove in the drive plate, blueing from excessive heat. If they are that stuck, you'll likely find several issues with them. If the plates got hot, you can bet the spring did too and sacked out significantly. And the spring is NLA from Honda. Many guys over look the spring. Any significant sacking of the spring and wear on the plates will have to be compensated for by extra shim washers, but the sacked spring is a problem. See what you can figure out.
Dave
Go ahead and use a hammer and screwdriver to drive them apart - you won't hurt anything. You should have a thick fiber washer stuck to the drive plate, plus a thin steel shim washer that the spring rides on. You need at least those 2. See what condition the plates are in - badly grooved, worn down to where there is no oil groove in the drive plate, blueing from excessive heat. If they are that stuck, you'll likely find several issues with them. If the plates got hot, you can bet the spring did too and sacked out significantly. And the spring is NLA from Honda. Many guys over look the spring. Any significant sacking of the spring and wear on the plates will have to be compensated for by extra shim washers, but the sacked spring is a problem. See what you can figure out.
Dave
- twinegar
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Re: Alternator Plates
kbart1, tell us about your bike and some bike history of yourself.................don't forget to go through the forum posts and read until you are cross-eyed, lots of valuable info here that helped me get going when I got my first two CBX's in 2007. I am sending you a PM.
On my 80, I sort of got burned out when I was doing the resto and especially after I did all the work on the alternator. I remembered what my dad used to tell me, if it aint broke don't fix it, and decided to just ride and enjoy it. There aren't any critical issues with the bike other than the weak starter clutch and as long as I keep the carbs clean I can get it started within four tries, there is a little cam to shim noise but it runs great and I am leaving it alone.
On my 80, I sort of got burned out when I was doing the resto and especially after I did all the work on the alternator. I remembered what my dad used to tell me, if it aint broke don't fix it, and decided to just ride and enjoy it. There aren't any critical issues with the bike other than the weak starter clutch and as long as I keep the carbs clean I can get it started within four tries, there is a little cam to shim noise but it runs great and I am leaving it alone.
http://www.spookytoms.com/SpookyTom-MTRCCLSTF.html
"66CL160, 68CL125A, 68CL450, 69CL125A, 69CB750, 71CB450, 71CB500, 71CB750, 72CB350F, 72CB750, 74CB750, 75CL360, 75CB550, 75CB750, 76CB750, 79CB750, 79CBX, 79CBX, 80CBX, 82CB750, 84VF700S 05HDSPORTSTER1200ROADSTER"
"66CL160, 68CL125A, 68CL450, 69CL125A, 69CB750, 71CB450, 71CB500, 71CB750, 72CB350F, 72CB750, 74CB750, 75CL360, 75CB550, 75CB750, 76CB750, 79CB750, 79CBX, 79CBX, 80CBX, 82CB750, 84VF700S 05HDSPORTSTER1200ROADSTER"
- Don
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Re: Alternator Plates
Just guessing here, but I suspect this is a lubrication issue . . . . and that you're using synthetic oil - My starter clutch behaves similarly with synthetic oil and it acts perfectly normal with non-synthetictwinegar wrote:My 80 plates still slip a lot longer than the 79 and this is after replacing bearings and both plates with new parts. From the time I start the bike to when the plates finally engage is around five minutes or maybe a bit longer. Cruising along and watching the meter the needle will twitch a couple of times and then move right up to the normal position for the rest of the day
I think your brand new clutch plates are 'super lubricated' because they are new, the contact surfaces are smooth and perfectly flat and the 4 oil channels are huge like they are with new plates - The whole assembly is literally swimming in oil. Your '79, like most of ours, has the concentric grooves worn in the plates and those keep much of the oil which is being spun outward by centrifugal force from reaching the outer edge of the plates, where most of the friction coupling is achieved - The oil is injected in the center and works it's way outward between the plates and it has a much easier time with the new, flat plates
Nothing to worry about - I'd just ride it like it is . . . . or shim it a few thousandths if it bothers you
Don
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alternator pieces
Greetings - in this image, is further disassembly of the unit required to separate pieces 7 & 8 (the black painted and clear-coated alloy halves of the housing)? I have the complete unit out and on my work station. I need to get those pieces separate in order to refinish them. While I'm in there, of course, I'll check the clutch plates. Best regards,
~Troyce
~Troyce
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Re: Alternator Plates
Your explanation of the slippage seems right on and mimics my voltmeters indications under most all conditions
it makes sense to me now thanx!
So how do guys get 13.2 volts @ idle ???
I flat plate sanded my discs until my arms sore for 2 days twice and fooled with springs and shims to try and get 12-13.2 volts @ idle figuring I figured flat at plates would keep solve slipping issue Wrong I too drove around with voltmeter in my tank bag
Lockup never Really happens I don’t think
at idle at a stoplite my voltmeter is about 10-11 takes a while to ramp up to 12-13Valways does but you know there’s lots of slippage going on as needed I’m not doing anything further I’m happy it works correctly
It still is a cuckoo cobbled setup up but it does contribute to that snappy engine spin up not having that big hunk directly connected to the crank
You know that WHOOP WHOOP Sound truly sweet with pipemasters
Now am I correct that it seldom truly locks together even with machined flat plates and a correct spring and shim/s
Brushes only in the future ....
it makes sense to me now thanx!
So how do guys get 13.2 volts @ idle ???
I flat plate sanded my discs until my arms sore for 2 days twice and fooled with springs and shims to try and get 12-13.2 volts @ idle figuring I figured flat at plates would keep solve slipping issue Wrong I too drove around with voltmeter in my tank bag
Lockup never Really happens I don’t think
at idle at a stoplite my voltmeter is about 10-11 takes a while to ramp up to 12-13Valways does but you know there’s lots of slippage going on as needed I’m not doing anything further I’m happy it works correctly
It still is a cuckoo cobbled setup up but it does contribute to that snappy engine spin up not having that big hunk directly connected to the crank
You know that WHOOP WHOOP Sound truly sweet with pipemasters
Now am I correct that it seldom truly locks together even with machined flat plates and a correct spring and shim/s
Brushes only in the future ....
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Re: Alternator Plates
First thing we need to understand, the volt meter IS NOT measuring the output of the alternator. It's measuring battery voltage, and isn't very good at even doing that. Imagine the battery is a bucket of water, or in this case, electric. We start the bike, which uses up some of the water in the process. The alternator spins with the engine, but can only make more water (volts) so fast. More revs helps, some. Eventually, the bucket gets full again and the meter will indicate the battery is full.
So, check with a digital volt meter ans see how far off your meter really is, and don't worry if it takes a bit for the meter to show a full battery. If you really want to know if the alternator is working, use an ammeter, which indicates the amount of electricity flowing through a wire. Imagine that volts is pressure, and amps is the flow rate. That's why it take bigger wire to carry more amps.
So, check with a digital volt meter ans see how far off your meter really is, and don't worry if it takes a bit for the meter to show a full battery. If you really want to know if the alternator is working, use an ammeter, which indicates the amount of electricity flowing through a wire. Imagine that volts is pressure, and amps is the flow rate. That's why it take bigger wire to carry more amps.
Rick Pope
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.
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Re: Alternator Plates
Troyce - yes, you need to really separate the outer cover from the middle frame and remove the rotor from the middle. An air impact is great for that, but use two wrenches and hope the correct nut loosens. Check both bearings and the center seal while you're in there. Cheap and easy to replace now.
Dave
Dave
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Re: Alternator Plates
Just some 'one guy's' info if it helps anyone: My volt meter reads 13.1/13.2 down the road while the battery is at 14.2. (2000-2500 rpm) Probably could use some terminal cleaning. However, it's been consistent for 50k miles. So why 'fix' it? Bike always starts. [Exception is when a battery dies.] Also, you might replace the brushes while you are 'in there'.
Forgot one other thing: Note that the manual says to apply moly grease to the plate surfaces when you reassemble. Might sound counterintuitive. Worked for me.
Forgot one other thing: Note that the manual says to apply moly grease to the plate surfaces when you reassemble. Might sound counterintuitive. Worked for me.
Larry Zimmer
cbxlarry@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Alternator Plates
I would argue that the voltmeter shows "battery voltage". If this was the case, the voltmeter would not show a different voltage when the engine is running. When you switch the ignition on, the voltmeter shows battery voltage, because it measures across the battery terminals - basically. When the engine is running, the voltmeter shows a higher voltage, because the alternator is supplying a charge across the terminals.
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Re: Alternator Plates
The gauge cluster voltmeter does show battery voltage, minus about a mile of wire loss, plus factor in weak connections, plus the voltmeter is not deadly accurate in the first place.
Dave
Dave
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Re: Alternator Plates
If it would show "battery voltage" put a discharged battery in the bike, jump start it and see what the voltmeter indicates. If it would show battery voltage, it would show the discharged stage of the battery. While it shows voltage "across the battery terminals" it indicates the charge coming from the alternator. The voltmeter, when the bike is running, does not indicate the status of the battery.
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Re: Alternator Plates
While technically true, neither does the volt meter show what the alternator is putting into the battery, only that it's "doing something". To get a true picture, you need both an ammeter and a volt meter, wired in the proper fashion. Honda dropped the ball on this one.
Rick Pope
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.
Either garage is too small or we have too many bikes. Or Momma's car needs to go outside.